Talk Nerdy to Me: Chivalry or Chauvinism?

Posted by on Feb 9, 2011 in Columns, Talk Nerdy To Me | 2 comments

A conversation arose on Facebook with some of my friends recently regarding a particular dating scenario. In this scenario, two people go out on a first date and the man orders for the woman. The general consensus from my friends (and myself) is that this is a no-no. Here are a couple of comments from the conversation, with my own personal thoughts:

Friend 1: Ordering for you is a bit forward.
In general, I agree — especially if the person is ordering for me without knowing what I like or asking if he’d like me to order for him. However, I will admit that there are times when I’ve gone out with a guy and asked them to order for me; this is usually if 1) I’ve never been to a restaurant and/or 2) I’ve mentioned what I’m hungry for and need to make a stop at the ladies’ room. The key here, though, is that I asked for my date to order for me — and really, in the case of the former of the two scenarios, it’s usually more my asking what they recommend rather than asking them to order for me without any feedback.

Friend 2: If he already knew what you wanted from the menu, and then was just saving you the inconvenience of repeating to the waitress, then that’s the standard gentlemanly thing to do. Really ordering FOR you… I’d be a little weird about it.
I also agree with this, and it goes back to what I said above. If I’ve stated what I want to eat and my date relays the information to the waiter, I’m fine with that. There are people who consider this sort of gesture either gentlemanly or romantic. Really, in this case, it’s up to the person’s preference.

Friend 3: Lol. It ain’t the 1950s.
And here is where we get into the other side of the coin. If the person is ordering for you without you asking them to or without them asking if they can, then it’s really uncalled for. There’s also a really subtle but important difference in the way someone can make suggestions to you when dining out. “I’ve had the grilled salmon before, it’s really good” is a lot more friendly and neutral than, “You should get the grilled salmon” followed by ordering said salmon for the other person after a hesitant, “Uhh, okay.”

Friend 4: This is old school chauvinist behaviour.
Male chauvinism seems to have a lot to do with problems with perceived superiority. Assuming you know what’s best for a person without their say, making decisions for them without their permission, trying to force your opinion on another person or making them feel as though they’re inferior by treating them as if they are. But on the other hand, think of the things that are generally expected of men when dating women: you’re expected to open doors and car doors, pull out chairs, and walk a woman to her door when dropping her off — assuming you’re driving, which is another thing that’s often expected. When you open a door for a woman, are you treating her as if she’s incapable of opening it herself, or are you being a gentleman? Generally, I think it’s the polite thing to do, albeit the practice is just as old fashioned as the idea of ordering someone’s dinner for them.

There is, nowadays, a very fine line between chivalry (or the standard gentlemanly thing to do, as Friend #2 put it) and chauvinism. Let’s face it: dating is a lot different than the 1950s, but some of those ideals can still be held by people today. Are they right or wrong? Do they fall somewhere in the middle in that lovely shade of gray that defines a lot of society nowadays? It’s hard to say, to be honest. Some people take things more seriously than others, some are more easily offended. In the end, whether you’re dating a member of the opposite sex or the same sex, it’s important to treat the other person as an equal. Looking down your nose with an air of superiority is what leads to perceived chauvinistic tendencies; most of us don’t like to be talked down to by others, so we shouldn’t talk down to people ourselves.

What are your thoughts on the subject? Is ordering for your date gentlemanly, chauvinistic, or just old fashioned? Sound off in the comments below.

About Tiarra


Tiarra Wantz is a comic book and sci-fi geek girl who enjoys reading, playing video games, creating typography art, and comparing everything to “that one episode of TNG where…” Tiarra lives in Las Vegas with the love of her life, Dan, where they live together with two cuddly kittens named Panda Face and Ser Pounce-a-lot and a precocious pup named Pippin.

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  • Jason

    There are plenty of pop culture references dealing with thus exact issue. All of which point to ordering for someone being a power play. Don’t judge but I saw an ep of Family Ties just last week all about this. :) Malorie’s date is nervous and asked Alex for some advice. Alex gives a huge helping of chauvinist ideas and the date ends abruptly when the nervous date orders for Malorie. Both Alex and the boy are confused as to her reaction and the rest of the episode teaches us that women in the 80s are people too.

    Ordering for the woman isn’t the same as holding a door open. We should hold the door open for anybody all the time. Ordering for the woman is the first step in the relationship powerplay. To me it says, ‘I will tell you what to like and what to eat. I’m the provider and the leader. Follow or suffer the consequences.’

    Anyway, all that aside, I blame the father. Maybe educate the boy by showing him that episode of Family Ties.

    • http://www.geek-life.com Tiarra

      There’s really nothing else I can add to any of that except that you shouldn’t take advice from Alex from Family Ties because he’s a Republican. Hah! (Just kidding. Kind of.)