Wyrm’s Turn: Special Edition: Interview with Larry Elmore

I ran across Larry Elmore, fantasy art legend, while stumbling through the Exhibition Hall at Gen Con Indy. Dragging my wheeled bag behind me, I had narrowly avoided almost tripping or being tripped by dozen of fellow gamers. While the rest of my party had followed their separate Gen Con adventures, I schlepped my gear through the teeming masses with hopes of landing an interview or a similar glimpse at geek fame. Fate had smiled upon me. Though the old gaming adage goes, “Never split the party,” I’ve found that some of my best adventures are pursued alone.

This time my lack of trepidation led me to a chance encounter with one of the men who had shaped my fantasy-life since childhood. Turning a corner I saw a gentleman white of beard and hair. Arrayed around him was a booth with paintings, posters, and art that for me held a mystical, almost religious significance. My eyes seized upon the art, the familiar faces, the impressive angle, the sheer realism of fantasy in physical form: it was the art of Larry Elmore. And there, amidst years of iconic works, was the man himself.

Cautiously I approached. He was sketching something for a fan. An elf woman with angular features and hair swept back to reveal her pointed ears. I couldn’t believe my eyes. I was watching a master at work; with only pencil and paper he was sketching out the stuff of my dreams. I swallowed I shuffled my feet and browsed the wares. Finally the fan left; the artist himself was open for approach.

“Mr. Elmore?” I hazarded the question, but foolishly. With his booth festooned with art, his name and logo emblazoned behind his head, who else could he be?

“Yes?” he answered, smiling easily.

“Sir my name is ______. I write under the pseudonym Stygian Jim, for Geek-Life.com. I’ve been a big fan of yours for decades. Would you do me the honor of granting me a brief interview?” My heart was pounding in my throat and I don’t think I’ve been that nervous since I proposed to my wife. There was a brief pause as he considered the question.

“Of course.”

And that was it. The door had been opened. We chatted for a few minutes. I wished that I had brought my recorder, as he casually rattled off personal history I had never been privy to. We agreed on a time for an interview early the next day. As soon as I was done, I crowed my success on Facebook; I texted my wife, my cousin, anyone I thought would care. The elation kept me afloat all day. I jotted questions in my notebook that night, and early the next morning. When I arrived at the convention the next day I could barely contain my excitement. I rushed the entrance, arriving only minutes after they opened the main doors to the hall. My wife struggled to keep up through the sea of gamers and people of questionable hygiene. We reached the booth early. I had been able to get one of my scheduled interviews the day before, and I fiddled with my digital recorder to bring up the next file. I forced myself to peruse another booth, and then turned around, fretting over whether or not I’d be there on time. Mr. Elmore was gracious when I arrived, allowing me to take up time center booth, while he paused occasionally to trade words with a fan, or autograph some of his art.

The interview went easily; he was candid and kind. What follows is a transcription of our conversation. (I have edited out my polite affirmations, and incessant repetitions of the word, “Yeah.”)

Stygian Jim: So thanks again, Larry, for letting me do this with you today. Yesterday we had discussed a little bit of your history and how you had gotten into fantasy art, what you had termed “adventurous art.”

Larry Elmore: Well yeah. What got me into fantasy was an interest in ancient history. By reading about the Celts, the early Romans and Egyptians, the Vikings and all those peoples, it just seemed like a great adventure; it got me into that stuff. And then early on in my career I saw some of the early fantasy stuff, fantasy works by Frazetta and a lot of those guys of that generation. Of course I’m almost of that generation. I was in college at the time, so I wasn’t a kid; I was in my late teens. It just looked like so much fun. My heart was already going in that direction anyway, so I just went on into fantasy and science-fiction. At the time that TSR wanted to hire me I was as much into science fiction as I was into fantasy, maybe more so. Because I was working at Fort Knox, for the military, working on secret spy photos to draw some of the newest tanks and equipment of the Soviets. You had to make up so much of that stuff. A lot of the photos were so grainy you had to fake a lot of it. I just thought this is so cool. I can make up my own vehicles. You know, making up my own space ships. I was enjoying that, especially the vehicles, futuristic artillery, tanks and armor and ships– that was a lot of fun. Then Star Wars came out and that made it even better.

SJ: It must have been awesome work. Now I know that there may had been some bad blood between Margret Weis and Tracey Hickman, the creators of the Dragonlance setting, and TSR about the rights to their works. Was TSR more lenient with its artists? Do you still own the rights to any of the work that you did for that setting or other art that you did for them?

LE: No. I don’t own the rights for it. TSR kept the rights, but they got more lenient on reproducing things for myself, like limited edition things. I just can’t be printing much stuff and selling it. You know, it sort of came to this logic. They can’t do signed, numbered, limited edition prints because I have to sign and number them, and I can’t do signed and numbered limited edition prints unless I have the art. Okay, so there’s an area we agree on, and they’ve let me do that. Which is fine with me, and if you’re doing a book of your own stuff for promotion, they’ll let you do that. I can understand that, being in the industry. You can’t go selling the rights off to everybody, like the old basic red dragon or something. It’s stupid. So it’s never crossed my mind to do that. Even second rights, when I own the rights to something that I can sell to another company, I always tell them that this art has been on another book or a game; do you want to buy this? They may ask, “Well how long ago was it?” If it’s been ten years or so, they may have to think about it. If the game’s gone out of business, okay, they might try again, but it’s up to them. I think it’s only fair, ‘cause if I’m running a business, I’d always want to know the history of the art I’m using.

 

 

 

L-R: Brittany Madden, Andrea West, Ken Whitman, and Trevis Powell, with Larry Elmore front and center. Click to Enlarge.

 

 

SJ: Now I notice that you’ve got a lot of stuff that you’ve done since then.

LE: Oh yeah, when I worked at TSR, and shortly the next ten years afterwards, was probably the peak of my career as far as energy, cranking it out, working ninety hours a week with hardly any sleep, living off of cigarettes, junk food and coffee. Three packs a day of cigarettes, five pots of coffee, and Snickers. Of course I paid for it all later, heart attacks and things, but I was just working 24/7 and I did that for a ten year stretch. Now I don’t work that hard. Nobody should be working that way, it’s crazy. I guess I got sane, maybe.

SJ: So where do you see yourself going? Where do you plan on taking your art in the future?

LE: Right now I want to become totally independent. Just do just my thing if I can. I mean I’ve always been an illustrator, and you get your lifestyle based in a certain way. You gotta wean yourself off of this to do that. I’m at the point now where I’d like to totally do my own thing and sell it. Well, I’ve still got bills to pay, and I’d have to get that ball rolling in another direction. When you’re publishing you’re getting paid every thirty days and there’s a turn around. You’ve got three or four things out there, you get paychecks. Now, I’ve been doing private contract work so I just need to get one more step. So I’ve been doing half and half, half contract and half my own stuff. I just need that one more step to do mainly my own stuff.

SJ: One of the things that I think is most iconic in your art are the beautiful women. Do you use models?

LE: Sometimes I do, sometimes I don’t. Sometimes I make them up, or part of the girl is real and part of her is made up, or changed, or enhanced or whatever. Sometimes if it’s a pretty model, I try to use her face, ‘cause she can see herself in the painting and it really excites her. Used to I didn’t think about it. But anymore I’ve done that because I’ve seen the girl when she can recognize herself and it’s fun. Yeah I’ll do a little bit where sometimes I use a model, sometimes not, sometimes half and half. But I always figure it’s good to have a model. At least you get a pretty girl to the studio and you can photograph her in skimpy outfits. You know, I’m not stupid.

SJ: What’s your favorite medium to work with?

LE: Oils. I’ve worked with about every medium, watercolors, whites, acrylic, but I like oils for painting. And I love pencils just to draw with. I think that’s sort of its purest form pencils, and then to paint, oils.

SJ: How young were you when you got into art?

LE: Well, I was drawing when I was three years old. I never stopped. My earliest memory in my life, I was probably about between one year old or two years old, and I was drawing a car on the wall in the house. I had the two wheels drawn on the wall, and I was connecting them with a line. My mom caught me, and I really got in trouble. I got a whipping and everything else and they washed it off the wall. I remember crying not because I was hurt from the whipping, but it was because in my mind the wheels were like the two most perfect circles. Of course in reality, they could have been all wrong, but in my mind they were perfect circles. I couldn’t believe it: I had drawn the two most perfect circles I’d ever drawn and they just washed it away, and that just killed my soul. But I often wonder, I wish I could have seen those, because I remember how clear it was in my mind. They could have been just rough triangles, but I thought it was perfect anyway, and so I just started drawing then and I’ve never stopped.

SJ: Now you said you went to college for art; where’d you go?

LE: I went to Western Kentucky University. That’s a good college. They had a pretty good art program. I got a degree from there. Then, of course, that’s just a kicking off point. The rest of the time you’ve got to hustle. I had just finished college at Christmas and then got drafted in January or February. Spent two years in the Army, and got a job working at Fort Knox as an illustrator after that. My plan was getting a masters degree from Pratt in New York. The college had backed me up and was going to give me the money, and my college was working with them to get me a scholarship. Then I got drafted right between regular college and getting a masters degree, and when I got out I was tired of school and it was two years later so I got the job at Fort Knox as an illustrator drawing tanks and helicopters. Then I started freelancing on the side, and then freelanced for TSR and they wanted to hire me, and so I went to work for them.

 

 

 

 

Slay 'em, Jim! Click to Enlarge.

 

 

 

SJ: So I’ve got to ask – you’ve inspired so many gamers with your art, have you ever played D&D?

LE: I played D&D. We had run one game before I got hired by TSR. So I was familiar with it, and once I got there we hired a whole new young crew of good artists. Keith Parkinson was one of the youngest guys we hired and he was a big D&D player. He was a DM; he ran the games. So he and I used talk about it and thought we’d get a game going for the Art Department. There were about six or eight of us in the department at the time, well six and a couple of the game designers would come over. So we started a campaign that lasted for about three years, every break and every lunch. Sometimes our lunches would run two and a half hours, and we’d have to have some one look to make sure nobody important was coming down the halls. ‘Cause we’d really get into it, you know. Then about once a month we’d get together at somebody’s house and play all night.

SJ: You actually touched on something that has always bothered me about fantasy and science-fiction cover art. Sometimes it seems that the artists are not very familiar with the work they’re illustrating. Do they just get a little blurb to work from?

LE: Back in the day when I was working for TSR, we’d get advertising agencies and art agencies that would send us portfolios that would have really slick art from professional illustrators from all over the United States. We’d look at it and ask some of our bosses, do we want to use this, and they’d say no. It just didn’t have the feel. There was a magical feel for us for what we were doing. These guys were too slick, too mainstream, too commercial, and we could feel it. Because our crowd, this hobby market that was buying this game does not like that mom and pop commercial look. It was a bit more not so slick, not so perfect. And their stuff, well, their knight and their wizard looked like the movies, all Disney, or an ad, too slick. Our work was a little more earthy because we gamed. We knew what was going on; it reflected it somehow. You could see the difference. I don’t know what it was, but you could see it. So when I was there we turned down a lot of that stuff. Now you see a lot of the RPG art is like that; it’s too slick, too commercial. I don’t know if people can tell the difference anymore or not though. It all changes. Well, you know, the business has evolved. It’s just evolved, I guess.

SJ: You mentioned Frank Frazetta as one of the artists that you looked up, to that inspired you. Are there any other favorite artists that you had?

LE: Yeah, Jeff Jones, the Hildebrandts, Kaluta and Wrightson. At that time that I was in college they were being published. Some of them were my age, and they didn’t go to college; they just started working. Frank Frazetta was a little older than me and the Hildebrandts were older than me. But they were in their prime, or young and really just inspired me a lot. Other artists, the early American illustrators– M.C. White, Howard Powell, Remington, Russell– just all of those guys from that era, from the turn of the century illustrators, both pen and ink guys and color illustrators, especially that adventure and western stuff, really inspired me. Going back to the American and European illustrators around the turn of the century, the realist movement, and all of the guys from that period of time.

SJ: On my honeymoon my wife and I saw the Sistine Chapel. Michelangelo hid himself in about three places on the back wall, including one spot where he is shown as an entire human skin being held aloft. Have you ever put yourself in your art, and if so which pieces in particular?

LE: Uh, I’ve not really hidden myself, but I’ve had to use myself as a model. I remember the first time Keith Parkinson and I were sharing a studio and I was griping how I need to find some guy about forty years old, getting grey and who’s got a beard. I was describing myself, but I wasn’t really thinking about it. I was cussing about it, and he said, “Have you looked in a mirror lately?” So I had him shoot me, and I’ve used myself in paintings two or three times. Sometimes it’s more blatant, sometimes it’s more hidden, you know. There’s one, I can show it to you if I can find it. Keith Parkinson modeled for the other two characters. (At this point he searched out and found the painting, showed it to my wife and I. She commented how he looked like Sean Connery.) I did get to look at that a while later and thought I had looked like Sean Connery. Now I get a lot of people telling me I look like Kenny Rogers. Now I use myself for reference as an old wizard, for the wrinkles around my eyes and stuff.

SJ: You mentioned a lot of the artists these days being too slick. Are there any of the modern artists that you really like?

LE: I guess my favorite now is Donato Giancola. He’s a young artist, done a lot of Magic cards and he paints like an old master. And there’s a younger artist, in his twenties or around thirty who studied under him. He’s German and I guess his name’s Volga, I think, and he studied under Donato. Both of them paint like the old masters. I got to meet Volga at a convention last year, and Donato I’ve known for a long time. They both paint like old masters, and I love it. I love their work. If I had more time, that’s what I would want to paint for myself. I don’t want to paint what people expect me to paint; I want to paint for myself.

SJ: What would you like to paint?

LE: Oh it’d be fantasy it just wouldn’t be as blatant. More like the girl on the end. (He waves a hand at a wonderful portrait at the end of the booth: a dark haired woman in period finery with a dagger in her hand.) It could be fantasy, but not fantasy. About the only thing fantasy about her is that she’s holding a knife, that’s it. A lot of people like that piece.

SJ: I have to say, that piece has the old quality of your earlier work, but it does have a maturity to it that hints at the fantasy, but doesn’t hit you in the face with a sword or a dragon. Let me ask, do you have any advice for aspiring artists?

LE: Well, your art will speak for you. That’s always been it, more than anything. Learn your computer programs. Learn your computer arts because it’s here to stay. The market is flooded, so the prices aren’t what they used to be. When the market is flooded, the prices go down, so you’ll have to do more for less money. So using your computer will help you do that. But also keep up your standard art because there’re always collectors. I’m so glad that I do traditional art, ‘cause right now I’m making a lot of money off of original sales. An original is one of a kind, that’s it, and there’ll always be collectors for that.

SJ: Have you ever had your stuff in a gallery?

LE: I’ve never really pursued the gallery thing. I guess I come from the sixties and went to school in the sixties, and I was fine art trained. They made a great definition between fine art, and what they called “cheap commercial art.” I’ve never tried to convince a gallery that what I did was fine art.

SJ: If you weren’t an artist, what would you be doing? Or can you not imagine that?

LE: I guess I’d be a bum or something. I don’t know, it was such an influence at such an early age I never thought about anything else. I guess if I had not gotten tangled up in something I would have gone into history or some aspect of history, a teacher or something like that. But knowing me, if it hadn’t been art, I probably would have ended up in a motorcycle gang or jail or something, I don’t know.

 

 

 

Larry Elmore rides on! Click to Enlarge.

 

 

SJ: I saw the picture of you on the motorcycle. Is that one of your favorite hobbies?

LE: I like motorcycles I always have, and hot rods. They’ve been my hobby. When I was little, and before I ever thought about painting as a livelihood, when I was young all the way up to when I was ten or eleven years old, I wanted to be a race car driver. The only race cars there were back then was the Indy 500, and I watched, or rather listened to it every year. Back then one or two people got killed every year. And I remember I had a favorite race car driver, Eddie Sacks. I liked him, and he got killed at Indy one year or something while I was listening on the radio. But I still wanted to be a race car driver. Nowadays it’s a much safer profession, but you also have to get started into it like racing go-carts at three years old. Back then you could get started around sixteen or something, but that’s what I wanted to do. Then again I was already involved in art in my life. So as an adult I’ve always had my art and an old hot rod or something.

SJ: So now what kind of motorcycles or hot rods do you have?

LE: Now I’ve got a Harley Davidson Fatboy and a 1934, what they call a high boy. It’s a coup without the fenders. It’s got about 550 horsepower and weighs less than a Volkswagen bug.

SJ: I’ve been through Kentucky. It seems like there’re a lot of good places to ride. They’ve got a lot of hills right?

LE: Yeah, a lot of hills. I love riding the bike through all those hills and curves, cruising around.

SJ: I really appreciate you doing this with me. It’s fulfilled one of my fanboy dreams to get to meet you. Like I said, your art is some of what got me into Dungeons and Dragons, which got me into writing which I’d like to turn into a career down the line.

LE: I tell people to hold onto that day job as long as you can until you have to make the decision.

SJ: Well I think that’s about it. Is there anything you’d like to say to your fans?

LE: I’ve just always appreciated the fans. You need fans and they’ve always supported me over the years. I’ve always said, without them you wouldn’t be what you are. It takes people who like what you do. That’s why I go to conventions and I love meeting people, and I love meeting fans, especially ones I’ve never met before. So I really appreciate them, and I never take them for granted

Thanks again to Larry Elmore and his team. They were so nice to talk to and he was great enough to share his time and tales with your humble correspondent. If you’d like to find out more about Larry Elmore, check out his official website at  http://www.larryelmore.com/.  Until then gentle readers, go forth, seek adventure and follow your dreams wherever they might take you.